Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Total Body Lift

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 06:08, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Total Body Lift

Total Body Lift (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Delete as unsalvegable spam. The subject may need an article on it, but this is not it. Paragraphs like "The female physique embodies the true sense of a three dimensional shape in space. It not only presents with curves in a two dimensional hour-glass form, but also curves that are appreciated as the bust in the front and the buttock in the back. A Total Body Lift procedure is typically performed after massive weight loss in order to correct both the upper and lower body contours. The surgery was pioneered by Doctor Dennis Hurwitz as a one stage operation. However, more commonly, it is nowadays performed as a two-stage procedure both by Dr. Dennis Hurwitz and his collegue Dr Siamak Agha-Mohammadi." indicate that it is most likely a made-up name for a couple of plastic surgeons who want to look like they offer something better than competitors; I note that the second name given (Siamak Mohammadi) is the same as the user who created the article. Ironholds (talk) 17:33, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

• Strong delete — not quite sure if the user (my guess is that the creator is an M.D.) is blatantly trying to promote this technique, is engaging in original research, or is just rolling a bunch of other stuff into a personal essay. In either case, this is clearly against what Wikipedia is not. MuZemike 17:40, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
• Delete - Per nom. Obvious spam and promotion of a business entity. §FreeRangeFrog 17:40, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions. —Espresso Addict (talk) 18:24, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
• Keep and salvage usable content. Surely contains some junk, but part of it might be salvageable. --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 18:32, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
• Delete and fast! Blatant advertising! Deb (talk) 20:19, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
• Speedy Delete. I don't see anything salvageable here, and none of the references actually address the supposed topic, "Total Body Lift," besides that reference to the website. Then there is a pretty clear COI problem: the creator is also the doctor on the website, Dr Siamak Agha-Mohammadi. Then there is, and this is a reason for a speedy, a copyvio problem: look for "The choice depends on the degree of back tissue laxity" halfway down the article and you get this. That's all pretty damning. Drmies (talk) 20:42, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

• The quoted text you mention is in some cases attributed to a Dr Agha or Argha, so there might be implied consent to reuse here. Espresso Addict (talk) 20:56, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

• Delete should have been speedied as spam. Edward321 (talk) 00:33, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
• weak Keep and possibly rename. i think the special nature of plastic surgery done after bariatric surgery is a real one, though perhaps not under this name. DGG (talk) 02:27, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
• Keep, generalise and rename. I declined the prod on this because I thought it was a poor article on a plausible subject; I've since done some poking around and maintain my initial view. The general concept of plastic surgery to remove excess skin folds after massive weight loss after bariatric surgery or other rapid weight loss is distinct from other plastic surgery techniques, is not only carried out by the doctors named here and has a large peer-reviewed literature under a variety of names. A quick search failed to find another Wiki article on the topic into which this could be merged. The search "total body lift" gives 3 hits in Medline and appears to refer specifically to the procedure being carried out in a single operation, which has been pioneered by Hurwitz et al., who appear experts in this area. This article [1] from www.cosmeticsurgery.com appears to call the general procedure "body contouring" and "body shaping" as well as "body lift" and provides a more balanced viewpoint. Medline articles use "body contouring" and also refer to the general procedure as "post-bariatric surgery reconstruction" or simply "plastic surgery after gastric bypass" and similar. Espresso Addict (talk) 11:22, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

• Merge to body shaping, per Ddawkins73. Espresso Addict (talk) 12:39, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

• Rename and cleanup or redirect. This is indeed a real name for a massive plastic surgery, maybe this name is used more in the UK? I've definitly seen a British documentary about a woman who had this done after loosing lots of weight due to illness, and they called it a total body lift. Should be moved to non-capitalised name. If advertising is aproblem cut it down to a stub.Yobmod (talk) 14:32, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
• Redirect - I can't find much independent mention of it. If there is any salvageable content, it should be able to fit into Plastic surgery, under "sub-specialities." - Ddawkins73 (talk) 15:55, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

• Not wishing to badger, but looking at the cosmetic surgery section of the plastic surgery article, almost all of the procedures mentioned there have subarticles. Espresso Addict (talk) 19:08, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Okay, probably best if we remove the spam from the article and see what's left. Like I say, I can't find many independent sources, but I'll go through it now and let's see if we've got an article. - Ddawkins73 (talk) 20:59, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

• • Right. From removing all the irrelevant preamble, I can see what's left is a combination of existing procedures. These are pretty much covered in Body shaping. The same concept. The few lines that are not can be merged to there. I don't see myself (as a layman who only practises plastic surgery as a hobby in bars for a bet when drunk) that there is any reason to credit any individuals with this procedure.

Merge to Body shaping.

- ( bolded - Ddawkins73 (talk) 14:25, 15 February 2009 (UTC))

I'll post the obesity paragraph on the obesity talk page. They might make use of it.

(The line the nom mentions, The female physique embodies the true sense of a three dimensional shape in space, could maybe be merged to the Gender geometry page)

- Ddawkins73 (talk) 21:45, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

• Merge and redirect to Body shaping#Body lifting. I'm not an expert on this, but there doesn't appear to be much difference between the two. "Total Body Lift" appears to be a commercial term with less than a handful of pubmed hits, and the wiki article is quite unencyclopedic. I would mark the redirect with {R with possiblities} in case someone wants to expand it in encyclopaedic fashion. Xasodfuih (talk) 18:28, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
• Delete - definite spam. I disagree with a redirect, too. --Alinnisawest,^{Dalek Empress} (extermination requests here) 03:22, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
• Delete everything else aside, even if the topic is notable this would require a complete rewrite to become encyclopedic. Just kill it now and maybe someone can pick up the pieces later. Tavix (talk) 04:18, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.